Not so much a problem with the idea of furthering your studies, just with how it actually is.
The first thing that I noticed about the people who I know that have packed up and gone to university is that they have turned into... how do I put this.. ragin' liberals. I have no problem with people on the left (well, I find the whole political compass thing to be pointless and counter-productive, but that is not the point), but one gets tired of hearing about how fucked America is, and how Fox represents everything bad in the world... Hey, here's an idea, shut the hell up. You know what is worse than Fox news? Repeating everything your hippy lecturer says and adopting all of their values. I thought that university was for the open-minded individuals of our societies to go and learn about their desired field, not a place to go and become liberal elitists. "Fox news is just a mouthpiece for the Republican party/vice versa, I prefer more non-bias shows" oh yeah? Interesting that you care about that, considering you live in fucking New Zealand, and what exactly do you watch then? "Oh, I watch the Daily Show and The Colbert Report every night*"..... oh, those shows that almost exclusively mock those on the right... huh, I can see you have a very accurate idea of what the phrase 'non-bias' means.
Another thing that annoys me about university is the papers/courses available, seriously.. B.A's? Why even bother? They seem so incredibly pointless to me, mainly due to the invention and expansion of the internet. If you want to learn about media or theatre or communication that badly, why not just google it? How is it going to help you in a career hunt, at all, if you show a piece of paper that says you learned about movies for 3 years? **
In New Zealand, uni students tend to have a 4 month holiday over the end of one year and going into the next one, the purpose of this (I have been informed) is to let the students go out and get work experience in the field which they are studying. This is not done. They use it to drink, work at some crappy job, use the money to drink more. The reason for this is that a heck of a lot of students can't get work in their specific study-field, because jobs don't exist in that field. Which should really tell them to change their degree, maybe to something that actually has ample opportunities for work.. maybe. Otherwise just go for it, at least you can hang your degree in your office when you get a desk job, which doesn't utilise any of the skills/knowledge you spent all that time and money on, and never will.
Also, uni is full of hipsters.. filthy fucking hipsters.
*For the record, I actually really enjoy both of these shows, as well as highly respecting both of these men, but that is beside the point.
**An exception for the pointlessness of a B.A: if it is combined with something not pointless e.g. teaching.
More great points good sir. Also could have delved further into the "going to uni for the sake of going to uni" I thought.
ReplyDeleteWhy thank you, good sir/madam. I could have, but it had got long enough as it was. Plus that is more about society and less about university. But maybe some day that will annoy me enough to write about.
ReplyDeleteThank you for reading.
You are wittingly truthful, and it's appreciated. Emma told me about your blog because she thought I would like it and she's a genius because I do. I didn't completely agree on everything but I think it's because of my American perspective (good or bad). I definitely see how students are often encouraged by the system and peers to simply regurgitate what others tell them. I would go so far as to say that this begins as early as primary education though.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate the feedback, Jordan. I also appreciate Emma recommending the blog.
ReplyDeleteFeel free to disagree with them, and feel free to let me know what exactly you disagree with, if you feel like it. I know my demeanor implies otherwise, but I do enjoy reading/seeing opinions other than mine on topics. I just tend to reply while mimicing the level of hostility that was in the original feedback.
I agree that it begins that early, I hold the idea that education, at least in New Zealand, is flawed throughtout all ages. But I just expected something different from university, I can't really explain why I expected that though. The fact that in NZ universities you will fail if you don't reference is probably the largest problem with coercing students to regurgitate what they hear. It leaves no room for freedom of opinion, because no matter what you think you have to link it back to something that someone else has already come up with. I'm sure there is a saying about how the leaders of yesterday shouldn't teach the leaders of tomorrow.
I think where the difference of opinion began was the point about the uselessness of a degree. My extracurricular in high school is debate so I'm essentially forced (really willingly) to go dumpster diving in databases of information to find articles by professionals in a particular field that relates to the topic. The only reason I'm able to access this information is because a university funds it and provides me access. The fact is, many universities conduct important research as well as bring information to the public. Secondly, a flaw in the system should be addressed, not simply boycotted. I know many people who would say that it wasn't until College that they learned how to read material critically or think on their own. I agree that with our access to information today being so vast, the role of higher education should change. However, universities provide more access to that information as well as helping students understand and utilize it.
ReplyDeleteIn my school system the underlying cause of this regurgitation problem starts with too much focus on national stadardized tests. People aren't the same and shouldn't be treated as such in an education system. Standardizing education simply punishes the creative thinkers and rewards the mindless. Academia is a subculture all on its own and however "elitist" or "hipster" it might seem good things can come out of it.
Haha your message got marked as spam, not entirely sure why.
ReplyDeleteI mean sure.. there will, of course, be things that I am overlooking that I would probably realise/see if I went to university.. and I am aware of the research that they conduct and what they do actually contribute to society etc. It's just that.. well..I just think that a majority of my opinons on the matter come down to just that, my opinions and feelings about the education system.
I mean, everything has some good that comes out of it, and there will of course be those who do learn to be critical thinkers and such.. I just have a unjustified moral opposition to the process of getting to that 'critical thinking' stage. I have so many friends who have packed up and gone to uni, and everytime I see them now they are repeating some opinion their lecturer has put out, or something they read in a book. It's not that I have any problem with gaining knowledge that was, people are just so easily influenced, it worries me about their capacity to become actual 'critical thinkers', or whether they are always going to retain the slight biases they picked up along the way.
I hold similar opinions about politics/leadership. Last year at school, all the school leaders went to some 'young leaders' conference, where they were taught all sorts of leadership skills etc, which is fine. But I found myself being outrageously opposed to it due to the fact that they were being taught all this stuff by current social leaders, and if up and coming leaders are being taught by out-going leaders, I don't see how any change is possible. It just struck me as a minor form of indoctrination and leaders passing down their ideals to the next generation.
But yeah, I know that simply boycotting these things won't work, but this is simply a place for me to vent the ever-burning rage I feel.
Haha I read that comment, I know it isn't overly 'conclusive' about my point of view. But I think all discussions get to the point where one has to accept that everything is opinion-based. Some discussions just get there earlier than others.
ReplyDeleteI think that opinions can be based on facts. At least I hope so, or we're all in trouble. I understand this is a place to vent your "ever-burning age." (Is it really ever burning? That sounds a little painful. Or do you have periods of rage free moments?)I stand by my point, but also find the irony in the leadership council thingy. People will either use or abuse the system, the fault lies somewhere with the students and/or their earlier school/social experiences as well as their expectations of life in general. I don't think the university's can take the blame for a problem that only arrives with them after the fact.
ReplyDeleteHaha well, yeah, of course they are going to be backed up with fact, or at least the person's interpretation of a fact. And that is the problem with opinion, people look at facts and can draw completely different things from them, which is why the religion and science debate is still going. Science presents these 'facts' that proves something (religion) incorrect, but religion uses those 'facts' to back up their own story. Perception and interpretation, two very powerful forces.
ReplyDeleteHaha no, of course not. That's why most of my complaints in the rant are actually about the people who go to uni, not uni itself. I'm not so crazy that I would blame the problems on a giant, faceless inatimate object. Like, sure, I say that uni turns people into the extreme liberals.. but it is, of course, the universtity culture and society that does this. Possibly linking back to my thoughts that 'university is for open-minded and intellectual people' and people on the left have developed a reputation for being just that.... but these are just thoughts.
Our difference of opinion over higher education can hardly be compared to a debate over religion/science. And besides, only one of us is basing opinion off of facts as you willing admitted. In the end We are in all actuality arguing something completely different things. We almost agree, but not quite, haha. I don't give in too easily.
ReplyDeleteExcuse my bad grammar. I typed this on my iPod and it didn't really work out.
ReplyDeleteHaha no no, I wasn't comparing this discussion to science vs religion. I was simply using the science vs religion debate to explain my view on the nature of 'facts'. Also, having read over the conversation, I too get the feeling we are not quite arguing about the same things.
ReplyDeleteAnd as for not backing down, I don't at all want or expect you to back down. You have your beliefs, you stick to them. If you did anything less I would be disappointed. I'm not in the ranting business to forcefully change minds or opinions. I have just found that my opinions on certain topics and subjects tend to differ astronomically than the opinions of a majority of the people I know, I just like to put the alternative ways of thinking out there. Even if someone disagrees or hates what I say, they have still seen another way of looking at something.
Hello,
ReplyDeleteJust thought that I may add a few thoughts in relation to a specific point -
"The fact that in NZ universities you will fail if you don't reference is probably the largest problem with coercing students to regurgitate what they hear. It leaves no room for freedom of opinion, because no matter what you think you have to link it back to something that someone else has already come up with."
This is an idea that niggled away at a large majority of students that first began to write essays for university (myself included) but after asking a couple of my tutors about the reasoning behind it, it seemed to make a lot more sense to most of us. Essentially the process is designed to encourage students to read and research in to their given topic more, and as one reads more and researches more, inevitably contradictory points of view will arise and leave the student with a decision to make at the end of it - which way that they wish to bias their own essay, or what stance to take depending upon who they choose to quote. Referencing is simply evidence that this level of in depth inquiry has taken place, and serves to encourage this.
Literary scholars have conducted far more research in to very specific fields than aspiring graduates, and hence largely have a far more informed and in most cases well rounded opinion than the student studying the field that they are writing about. This is not to suggest that one scholar is inexplicably right or wrong, rather that it helps an essay gain some sort of credibility as an informed opinion, by leaning upon the research that others have conducted. University lecturers are not averse to students disagreeing with scholars either - one of my own essays this year began under the premise of arguing against what someone had written, and my tutors took no issue with it.
Also, on a random aside - what you consider to be pointless and what others consider to be pointless in relation to interests and aspirations happens to be a completely subjective response. What you may find a waste of time may be intensely fulfilling for an individual with a specific interest, and may help further their passion for a field and perhaps even further them as a person. Just because you happen to have a negative view towards something does not mean that you have to attempt to discredit their choice or be derisive, does it? Doesn't that simply serve to be counter productive?
All in all an interesting reply, which I don't really have much to say in reply to, but it was informative so thank you.
ReplyDeleteMy only quarrel is with the last paragraph, which, when you look deep enough into it, begins to contradict itself.
I also am just making note about your "The fact that in NZ universities you will fail if you don't reference is probably the largest problem with coercing students to regurgitate what they hear. It leaves no room for freedom of opinion, because no matter what you think you have to link it back to something that someone else has already come up with."
ReplyDeleteYes, this can be a little silly at 100 level, where you read 2 internet articles, about what some guy thought about your topic. But it is basically training them for further levels. As when you get on to 200/300/post-grad, a research assignments means just that. You will be given a question/come up with one yourself. Then need to go out and find what information is out there. You will have to research. Using primary resources. And every time you come up with some opinion, you should have a reason for doing so. S.E.X I believe they call it. Make a statement, explain what you mean by your statement. And then give an example (here would be a good place to put in a reference). That is all.
Good blog, keep up the good work. Looking forward to you sticking it to those pesky greeny, whale hugging hippies. What about the bluefin tuna!!
Are you the same person who commented before? Anonymous confuses me.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, to be fair my impressions about referencing are taken mostly from my friends who are/were all first-year, so wouldn't have got into that whole in-depth research stuff.
But again, thanks for the comment, very informative. I will try keep Bluefin Tuna in mind